Comments for Contented Management http://contentedmanagement.net/blog Become contented about Content Management Sat, 06 Mar 2010 05:15:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 Comment on What makes different WCM different? by Irina Guseva http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/what-makes-different-wcm-different/comment-page-1/#comment-1790 Irina Guseva Sat, 06 Mar 2010 05:15:08 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=236#comment-1790 it's all matters of terminology, but, yes -- WP is a blogging tool rather than a WCM system. it can "manage" web content in terms of publishing it out, but it doesn't make WP a Web CMS. i do not believe WP can be "turned" into a true WCMS . PS: it's irina not irena ;) it’s all matters of terminology, but, yes — WP is a blogging tool rather than a WCM system. it can “manage” web content in terms of publishing it out, but it doesn’t make WP a Web CMS. i do not believe WP can be “turned” into a true WCMS . PS: it’s irina not irena ;)

]]> Comment on What makes different WCM different? by Philippe Parker http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/what-makes-different-wcm-different/comment-page-1/#comment-1775 Philippe Parker Thu, 04 Mar 2010 23:56:32 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=236#comment-1775 Jed, I don't want to shift the goalposts too far, but is a WCM really about managing content assets? I know there's a clue in the name, but bear with me for a moment. There are loads of tools that will publish content assets to the web or to other channels, but you wouldn't call them WCM: file systems, product management systems, CRM, templating kits, etc. What makes a WCM useful is its ability to link content according to business rules: you add some content and you get different kinds of presentations and navigation structures auto-magically. There's got to be a way of distinguishing between the way a leading blogging tool handles this compared to other WCM products. So without straying too much into the Peter Monks / Jon Marks territory, perhaps WCM is a completely invalid term. If your qualification is correct -- it's certainly logical -- then the term WCM is rubbish, because it doesn't allow you to make that distinction. But my view (and it seems that's Pie's and Irena's too) is that you need to say that blogging tools aren't WCM, they're blogging tools which you can turn into WCM if you put in some effort. Jed, I don’t want to shift the goalposts too far, but is a WCM really about managing content assets? I know there’s a clue in the name, but bear with me for a moment.
There are loads of tools that will publish content assets to the web or to other channels, but you wouldn’t call them WCM: file systems, product management systems, CRM, templating kits, etc.
What makes a WCM useful is its ability to link content according to business rules: you add some content and you get different kinds of presentations and navigation structures auto-magically. There’s got to be a way of distinguishing between the way a leading blogging tool handles this compared to other WCM products. So without straying too much into the Peter Monks / Jon Marks territory, perhaps WCM is a completely invalid term. If your qualification is correct — it’s certainly logical — then the term WCM is rubbish, because it doesn’t allow you to make that distinction. But my view (and it seems that’s Pie’s and Irena’s too) is that you need to say that blogging tools aren’t WCM, they’re blogging tools which you can turn into WCM if you put in some effort.

]]> Comment on What makes different WCM different? by Jed http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/what-makes-different-wcm-different/comment-page-1/#comment-1772 Jed Thu, 04 Mar 2010 20:39:03 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=236#comment-1772 I have chimed in on this at Pie's site, but on your last paragraph you seem to differentiate a 'blogging tool' from a WCMS - why is that ? A blog post or article is a form of a type of content item, one which is published in a particular way. If you were to write your blog posts in Notepad, upload the HTML to an Apache server with no other tools involved, I guess you could still call the your overall system a "blogging tool". However in my limited experience of WordPress, I have seen it used for static pages on an intranet, not just for blogs. So I say it is WCMS because: 1. It is publishing content to the Web (internal intranet or the public web) 2. It is Managing Content items - I use WP on a web site to which I am a contributing author. Posts are managed by senior editorial staff. That 'management' includes editing the content, adding metadata, setting a publishing workflow etc So to me WordPress has the W, the C and the M. It might not be RedDot (Ooops sorry OpenText) or Stellant (ooops sorry Oracle UCM) but its still WCM :-) I have chimed in on this at Pie’s site, but on your last paragraph you seem to differentiate a ‘blogging tool’ from a WCMS – why is that ?

A blog post or article is a form of a type of content item, one which is published in a particular way. If you were to write your blog posts in Notepad, upload the HTML to an Apache server with no other tools involved, I guess you could still call the your overall system a “blogging tool”. However in my limited experience of WordPress, I have seen it used for static pages on an intranet, not just for blogs. So I say it is WCMS because:

1. It is publishing content to the Web (internal intranet or the public web)
2. It is Managing Content items – I use WP on a web site to which I am a contributing author. Posts are managed by senior editorial staff. That ‘management’ includes editing the content, adding metadata, setting a publishing workflow etc

So to me WordPress has the W, the C and the M.

It might not be RedDot (Ooops sorry OpenText) or Stellant (ooops sorry Oracle UCM) but its still WCM :-)

]]> Comment on What makes different WCM different? by Philippe Parker http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/what-makes-different-wcm-different/comment-page-1/#comment-1769 Philippe Parker Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:52:52 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=236#comment-1769 Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify: My point isn't that WordPress is a bad product. It's a good product. This blog runs on WordPress and I've recommended and implemented it as a project collaboration tool, which may seem hypocritical, but that's another post. My point is that picking a content management system is about getting the right feature set. WordPress is lacking in a number of those features and that may make it difficult for your website implementation to succeed as a consequence. You can of course get any system to do pretty much anything with enough modules and development, but why would you bother when you get those features from another product more or less out of the box? I don't know podcms so I'll have to check it out. But I think when so many products offer features that help to inform web content management that WordPress can't achieve without significant effort, calling it a WCM just because you can use it to manage some kinds of web content is pretty much stretching the issue. I have to admit that I piggy-backed slightly on the twitter debate just to get some more attention, but the main thrust of the post was to say that different wcm products have different features that are worth thinking about before you pick one. I certainly wouldn't exclude WordPress from any website management, but if I thought it was a good fit for a client, I'd be likely to tell them that they didn't need a CMS, they needed a really great blogging tool. Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify:

My point isn’t that WordPress is a bad product. It’s a good product. This blog runs on WordPress and I’ve recommended and implemented it as a project collaboration tool, which may seem hypocritical, but that’s another post.

My point is that picking a content management system is about getting the right feature set. WordPress is lacking in a number of those features and that may make it difficult for your website implementation to succeed as a consequence.

You can of course get any system to do pretty much anything with enough modules and development, but why would you bother when you get those features from another product more or less out of the box?

I don’t know podcms so I’ll have to check it out. But I think when so many products offer features that help to inform web content management that WordPress can’t achieve without significant effort, calling it a WCM just because you can use it to manage some kinds of web content is pretty much stretching the issue.

I have to admit that I piggy-backed slightly on the twitter debate just to get some more attention, but the main thrust of the post was to say that different wcm products have different features that are worth thinking about before you pick one. I certainly wouldn’t exclude WordPress from any website management, but if I thought it was a good fit for a client, I’d be likely to tell them that they didn’t need a CMS, they needed a really great blogging tool.

]]> Comment on What makes different WCM different? by Scott Kingsley Clark http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/what-makes-different-wcm-different/comment-page-1/#comment-1767 Scott Kingsley Clark Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:31:18 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=236#comment-1767 To be clear, how much development have you done with WordPress, how far have you taken it with your projects? A lot of what you're saying here seems to confuse me. As a developer using WP every day (almost all hours of the day), I've been exploring nearly every aspect and every limit WP has. Perhaps the core functionality is more geared for simpler setups, but a number of things change this. A plugin for WP like Pods CMS (http://podscms.org/) is a real game changer. WordPress 3.0 has a number of enhancements including some cool Menu Management functionality, beefier core support for Custom Post Types (automatic UI integration of registered post types), and other cool things on the way. I guess what I really want to see is a detailed case study to support why you're against giving WP the credit it deserves? I'm sure we could go back and forth forever with you giving reasons and me countering them, but I only hope to give you further insight from an active developer in the WP community. To be clear, how much development have you done with WordPress, how far have you taken it with your projects? A lot of what you’re saying here seems to confuse me. As a developer using WP every day (almost all hours of the day), I’ve been exploring nearly every aspect and every limit WP has.

Perhaps the core functionality is more geared for simpler setups, but a number of things change this. A plugin for WP like Pods CMS (http://podscms.org/) is a real game changer. WordPress 3.0 has a number of enhancements including some cool Menu Management functionality, beefier core support for Custom Post Types (automatic UI integration of registered post types), and other cool things on the way.

I guess what I really want to see is a detailed case study to support why you’re against giving WP the credit it deserves? I’m sure we could go back and forth forever with you giving reasons and me countering them, but I only hope to give you further insight from an active developer in the WP community.

]]> Comment on What makes different WCM different? by Adriaan Bloem http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/what-makes-different-wcm-different/comment-page-1/#comment-1766 Adriaan Bloem Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:29:13 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=236#comment-1766 If WordPress isn't a WCMS, then Drupal isn't, either :P There's a lot to say about this (I just completed a 10-page review on WP as a WCM tool) but you've covered quite a few things nicely here. Just one note... WordPress isn't that great at SEO. For instance, it's pretty hard to get the category names out of the URL; and it's difficult to get a useful, individual meta description on all pages. None of it's impossible, but little things like that quickly make you long for a more sophisticated tool. The list of nags and limits in WP goes on, so be careful it really suits your scenario, otherwise you'll end up building your own system on top. If WordPress isn’t a WCMS, then Drupal isn’t, either :P There’s a lot to say about this (I just completed a 10-page review on WP as a WCM tool) but you’ve covered quite a few things nicely here.

Just one note… WordPress isn’t that great at SEO. For instance, it’s pretty hard to get the category names out of the URL; and it’s difficult to get a useful, individual meta description on all pages. None of it’s impossible, but little things like that quickly make you long for a more sophisticated tool. The list of nags and limits in WP goes on, so be careful it really suits your scenario, otherwise you’ll end up building your own system on top.

]]> Comment on Something rotten in WCM by Fantasy CMS for government http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/something-rotten-in-wcm/comment-page-1/#comment-1627 Fantasy CMS for government Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:26:09 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=176#comment-1627 [...] quick blog search suggests I’m not alone. Even their free pens get a [...] [...] quick blog search suggests I’m not alone. Even their free pens get a [...]

]]> Comment on I know why the caged bird sings by Andy Rowland http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/i-know-why-the-caged-bird-sings/comment-page-1/#comment-1619 Andy Rowland Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:49:54 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=229#comment-1619 I'm still on Bewilderment. I’m still on Bewilderment.

]]> Comment on Early thoughts on Drupal Gardens by Philippe Parker http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/drupal-gardens/comment-page-1/#comment-1564 Philippe Parker Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:10:15 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=211#comment-1564 I never said that Acquia was the first company to do hosted CMS, or WYSIWYG CMS. But I doubt that they've ripped off anyone. Is Squarespace based on Drupal 7? Even if it were, I couldn't comment on how everyone is acting within their licence. The point is, is the product any good, and who is it good for? Otherwise we'll all be looking at how CGI and mainframes evolved instead of how people might engage online. I never said that Acquia was the first company to do hosted CMS, or WYSIWYG CMS. But I doubt that they’ve ripped off anyone. Is Squarespace based on Drupal 7? Even if it were, I couldn’t comment on how everyone is acting within their licence.
The point is, is the product any good, and who is it good for? Otherwise we’ll all be looking at how CGI and mainframes evolved instead of how people might engage online.

]]> Comment on Early thoughts on Drupal Gardens by Ripoff http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/drupal-gardens/comment-page-1/#comment-1560 Ripoff Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:11:54 +0000 http://contentedmanagement.net/blog/?p=211#comment-1560 Are you aware this product is just a direct ripoff of http://www.squarespace.com/, which has has this exact interface (only more polished) for years? See their tour. Why are you covering ripoffs? Are you aware this product is just a direct ripoff of http://www.squarespace.com/, which has has this exact interface (only more polished) for years?

See their tour.

Why are you covering ripoffs?

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